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  • 'Professional' dive watch?

    I think I understand the ISO 6425 'Diver's' designation and I've even heard of the JIS standard, but is there any kind of standard for a 'professional' diver's watch?

    It seems I often see dive watches with 'professional' or 'pro' on the dial, but I can't find any decent info on what is actually meant by professional. I get the impression that 300m+ and a general suitability for helium enriched diving may possibly have something to do with it, but I'm guessing really. And then there's the 'professional' speedmaster too isn't there?

    I'm confused Any assistance appreciated!

  • #2
    Dunno if I'm right but I have a seamaster "professional" and I always thought it meant the watch would stand up to the rigours of every day use by diving professionals..... mine has never been wet of course but it looks pretty cool
    “I want to touch base on how we’ll synergize the pivot going forward”

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    • #3
      This information might be helpful although I think Don already explained it somewhere on the fora :?

      Water resistance part I

      The International Organisation for Standardisation issued a standard for water resistant watches which also prohibits the term waterproof to be used with watches, which many countries have adopted.

      Water resistance is achieved by the gaskets which forms a watertight seal, used in conjunction with a sealant applied on the case to help keep water out. The material of the case must also be tested in order to pass as water resistant.

      None of the tests defined by ISO 2281 for the Water Resistant mark are suitable to qualify a watch for scuba diving. Such watches are designed for everyday life and must be water resistant during exercises such as swimming. They can be worn in different temperature and pressure conditions but are under no circumstances designed for scuba diving.

      The standards for diving watches are regulated by the ISO 6425 international standard. The watches are tested in static or still water under 125% of the rated (water)pressure, thus a watch with a 200 meter rating will be water resistant if it is stationary and under 250 meters of static water. The testing of the water resistance is fundamentally different from non-dive watches, because every watch has to be fully tested.

      ISO 6425 water resistance testing of a diver's watch consists of:

      Immersion of the watch in 30 cm of water for 50 hours.
      Immersion of the watch in water under 125% of the rated pressure with a force of 5 N perpendicular to the crown and pusher buttons (if any) for 10 minutes.
      Immersion of the watch in 30 cm of water at the following temperatures for 5 minutes each, 40°C, 5°C and 40°C again, with the transition between temperatures not to exceed 1 minute. No evidence of water intrusion or condensation is allowed.
      Immersion of the watch in a suitable pressure vessel and subjecting it to 125% of the rated pressure for 2 hours. The pressure must be applied within 1 minute. Subsequently the overpressure shall be reduced to 0.3 bar within 1 minute and maintained at this pressure for 1 hour. No evidence of water intrusion or condensation is allowed.


      For mixed-gas diving the watch has to be immersed in a suitable pressure vessel and subjecting it to 125% of the rated pressure for 15 days in a (helium enriched) breathing gas mix. Subsequently the overpressure shall be reduced to normal pressure within 3 minutes. No evidence of water intrusion, condensation or problems caused by internal overpressure are allowed.
      An optional test originating from the ISO 2281 tests (but not required for obtaining ISO 6425 approval) is exposing the watch to an overpressure of 2 bar, no more than 50 µg/min of air is allowed to get inside the case.

      Except the thermal shock resistance test all further ISO 6425 testing should be conducted at 18 to 25°C temperature. The required 125% test pressure provides a safety margin against dynamic pressure increase events, water density variations (seawater is 2 to 5% denser than freshwater) and degradation of the seals.

      Movement induced dynamic pressure increase is sometimes the subject of urban myths and marketing arguments for diver's watches with high water resistance ratings. When a diver makes a fast swimming movement of 10 m/s (32.8 ft/s) (the best competitive swimmers and finswimmers can not nearly swim that fast) physics dictates that the diver generates a dynamic pressure of 0.5 bar or the equivalent of 5 meters of additional water depth.

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      • #4
        Water resistance part II

        Water resistance classification

        Watches are classified by their degree of water resistance, which roughly translates to the following (1 meter ? 3.28 feet):

        Water resistance rating
        Water Resistant or 50 m Suitable for swimming, no snorkeling water related work, and fishing. NOT suitable for diving.
        Water Resistant 100 m Suitable for recreational surfing, swimming, snorkeling, sailing and water sports. NOT suitable for diving.
        Water Resistant 200 m Suitable for professional marine activity and serious surface water sports. NOT suitable for diving.
        Diver's 100m Minimum ISO standard (ISO 6425) for scuba diving at depths NOT suitable for saturation diving. Diver's 100m and 150m watches are generally old(er) watches.
        Diver's 200m or 300m Suitable for scuba diving at depths NOT suitable for saturation diving. Typical ratings for contemporary diver's watches.
        Diver's 300m+ for mixed-gas diving Suitable for saturation diving (helium enriched environment). Watches designed for mixed-gas diving will have the DIVER’S WATCH L M FOR MIXED-GAS DIVING additional marking to point this out.

        Note: The depth specified on the watch dial or case represents the results of tests done in the lab, not in the ocean.

        Some watches are rated in bars instead of meters. Since 1 bar is the approximately the pressure exerted by 10m of water, a rating in bars may be multiplied by 10 to be approximately equal to that based on meters. Therefore, a 20 bar watch is equivalent to a 200 meter watch. Some watches are rated in atmospheres (atm), which are about 1% greater than bars. In the United Kingdom, scuba divers and others often use the word atmosphere interchangeably with bar (1 atm = 1.01325 bar, or 101,325 Pa).

        Watches designed for extreme water resistance

        The design and actual availability of divers' watches certified for more than 1,000 meters (3,300 ft) is not explicable solely by practical diving needs. The diving depth record for off-shore (saturation) diving was achieved in 1988 by a team of professional divers of the Comex S.A. industrial deep-sea diving company performing pipe line connection exercises at a depth of 534 meters of seawater (msw) (1752 ft) in the Mediterranean Sea. In 1992 a Comex diver achieved a record of 701 msw (2300 ft) in an on-shore hyperbaric chamber. A hydrogen-helium-oxygen gas mixture was used as breathing gas. The watches used during this scientific record dives were Rolex Sea-Dwellers with a 1,220m (4,000 ft) depth rating and these feats were used in advertising. The complexity, medical problems and accompanying high costs of professional saturation diving to extreme depths and the development of deep water atmospheric diving suits and remotely operated underwater vehicles in offshore oilfield drilling and production effectively nixed the need for ever deeper non-atmospheric manned intervention in the ocean.

        Air filled watches

        In 1960 a Rolex Deep Sea Special prototype diving watch attached to the hull of the bathyscaphe Trieste reached a record depth of 10,916 msw (35,813 ft) during a descend to the bottom of the Challenger Deep, the deepest surveyed point in the oceans. The watch survived and tested as having functioned normally during its descent and ascent. The Deep Sea Special was a technology demonstration and marketing project, and the watch never went into production.


        At the BaselWorld watch and jewellery show 2009, the CX Swiss Military Watch 20'000 FEET diving watch with an official depth rating of 6,000 m (20,000 ft) was introduced. This watch represented in its launch year, 2009, the most water resistant (mechanical) watch in production.[30][31] For obtaining this official depth rating the water resistance is tested to a depth of 7,500 m (24,600 ft) to offer the 25% safety reserve required by the ISO 6425 divers' watches standard.

        Normal surface air filled watch cases and crystals designed for extreme depths must be dimensionally large to cope with the encountered water pressure. To obtain its water resistance the CX Swiss Military Watch 20'000 FEET solid titanium watch case has a diameter of 46.0 mm, thickness of 28.5 mm (domed crystal thickness 10 mm) and the case and bracelet weigh 265 g.

        Liquid filled watches

        The cases of some diving watches designed for extreme depths are filled with silicone oil or fluorinated oil (oil were all the hydrogen is replaced by fluorine) exploiting the relative incompressibility of liquids. This technology only works with quartz movements as a mechanical movement does not work properly in the oil filled case. An example of these watches is the Sinn UX (EZM 2B), whose case is certified by Germanischer Lloyd for 12,000 m (39,000 ft), which is deeper than the Challenger Deep. However, the quartz controlled movement is only certified for 5,000m (16,000 ft). At extreme liquid pressures, the metal tube or the glass vial that shields the movement's quartz crystal oscillator in a quartz movement will eventually implode and the movement will stop functioning. The watch battery is another critical part that might fail under extreme liquid pressure. A problem with this technology is to accommodate for thermal expansion of the liquid contained inside the watch. The employed oil changes volume by 10% over a temperature range from -20 °C to 60 °C. This property endangers a traditional watch case since the crystal would blow out from any significant internal overpressure. On the UX (EZM 2B), the case back contains a large movable piston with an o-ring seal, allowing the liquid inside the watch case to expand and contract to adjust internal fluid volume and equalise with outside pressure.[33] The liquid filling improves the watch face legibility under water significantly, due to reduced refractive index differences between the watch crystal and its adjacent media and discards of crystal fogging due to condensation. To obtain its water resistance the Sinn UX (EZM 2B) stainless steel watch case has a diameter of 44.0 mm, thickness of 13.3 mm and the case and bracelet weigh 105 g. This is dimensionally modest compared to air filled diving watches designed for extreme depths.

        Source: wikipedia.org

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        • #5
          Thanks for the responses. Maybe I could've made myself clearer, I'm happy with 'Diver's' and ISO 6425 (thanks all the same al0ha, appreciate the effort ). I suppose what I'm asking, unless I've missed something obvious, is does 'professional' on a dial mean anything concrete, or is it used by some marques to give more of a 'tool watch' emphasis without having a standardised basis? I ask because there's two dive watches I'm looking at acquiring, both rated 300m and both with 'professional' on the dial (neither of them an SMP btw!), and I'm examining details to help figure out which one to get first (a nice problem to have ). Although it's not a difference between the watches, it's something I've been puzzling over all the same.


          Dunno if I'm right but I have a seamaster "professional" and I always thought it meant the watch would stand up to the rigours of every day use by diving professionals..... mine has never been wet of course but it looks pretty cool
          Yep, seems like a reasonable assumption. I read a post once saying that the water resistance rating indicates the distance you should keep your watch away from the water

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          • #6
            Lol - you're quite right Tipene (and Aloha) and can also see a similar thread posted ages ago back in the dark ages in the reference department:

            http://www.timekeeper.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=68

            The basic idea is the ones which say 'Water Resistant' are intended for surface activity and ones which say 'Divers' are for underwater usage. Definitely, for sure, watches very much NOT intended for 'Professional' water use will have 'Professional' splattered all over the dial (MARKETING) - the article explains also why the humble 300m Seiko Tuna is more of a beast in the sea then the mighty 300m Rolex Submariner.

            People with pony tails quaffing latte's are the ones who most likely decide if a watch will use a dial with the word 'PROFESSIONAL' printed on it
            Harlan
            Timekeeper Watch Club
            New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

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            • #7
              I know this doesn't add much to the debate, but...

              My advice, if you can't decide between "Professional" and "Diver's", choose both.




              Cheers,
              Romeo
                [br]
              1. \"Luck is merely preparation meeting an opportunity\"
              2. [br]

              [br]
                [br]
              1. My WAYWOF photo archive
              2. [br]

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              • #8
                I know this doesn't add much to the debate, but...

                My advice, if you can't decide between "Professional" and "Diver's", choose both.




                Cheers,
                Romeo

                ADD to the debate .Mate I think you just killed and buried it .
                Wish I had thought of that . :thumbup: :thumbup:
                Rest easy Matty , My best Mate and Son

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mighty fine watch this.... Lol - I think that's is very funny both of you two... so, that watch on the lovely olive drab cloth is a 7C43 powered pro diver if I am not mistaken... it has the high torque 7C to turn bug fat lumed up hands (one of the set reg's for a pro dive watch) but most of all, IMO what Seiko have done to this watch ensuring it's 200m Divers and Pro ratings is they gave it a glass with a screw down ring (Ring Lock System) for pressing it nicely and snugly up against the gasket which is in the case (a la Seiko Tuna's and SD600 (ohh the SD6), Omega ProPlof and Rolex Deep Sea Sea Dweller (esteemed company).

                  So Mr. Seiko has a Divers 200m manufacturers rating and to me this makes it suitable for professional use and able to justly carry the word. I would marry that watch, excellent tool watch and these were extremely popular in the battle field.

                  JM2CW :D

                  PS: Romeo did you see the crazy microscope gizmo on the other thread... just wondered since you've got the sikkest pics mate




                  I know this doesn't add much to the debate, but...

                  My advice, if you can't decide between "Professional" and "Diver's", choose both.




                  Cheers,
                  Romeo

                  ADD to the debate .Mate I think you just killed and buried it .
                  Wish I had thought of that . :thumbup: :thumbup:
                  Harlan
                  Timekeeper Watch Club
                  New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for the reference to that older post Harlan, very interesting reading. It would seem that not only a ‘professional’ label on a dive watch dial, but also the actual water resistance rating can potentially be misleading, with strategic marketing sometimes being the cause. In having a good close look at the two different ‘300m professional’ dialled diver-type watches in question (see OP) I’ve found some more support for this.

                    Without going into too much (i.e. probably boring) detail of what I found out:

                    - I emailed the two watch manufacturers. The one that has replied so far said that with regard to their watch professional “is only a word”. That is, their watch is not designed for professional dive use, despite what it says on the dial. That’s a commendably honest response!


                    The basic idea is the ones which say 'Water Resistant' are intended for surface activity and ones which say 'Divers' are for underwater usage.
                    - This same "only a word" watch has a DIN designation rather than ISO. From what I can gather, there are two DIN water resistance designations (DIN 8310 and 8306) equivalent to ISO 2281 and 6425, but sort of like the German equivalent. I’d never heard of these before This watch has been tested according to DIN 8310/ ISO 2281 which is a kind of entry level water resistance standard and not nearly as rigorous as the 6425 Divers’ standard. Seems kind of weird/pointless/inappropriate/misleading for a ‘300m professional’ dive watch to be tested for and marketed as meeting this 'Water Resistant'/surface activity standard.

                    - After reading through the personal experiences and reviews of people who actually own the two types of watch (and asking a few questions) the conclusion was, that for a variety of reasons, one of the two watches I would dive with. The other, I would say is the less worthy of the two with regard to having the 300m professional dial label, this watch would seem to be comparatively a ‘desk diver’ (which is fine, depending on what you want to use the watch for, and as long as you know what kind of use the watch is suited for).

                    Before I’d looked into all of this I would have assumed that ‘300m professional’ was synonymous with ‘serious diver watch’ and that the two watches in question were essentially the same as far as water resistance goes ops:


                    Definitely, for sure, watches very much NOT intended for 'Professional' water use will have 'Professional' splattered all over the dial (MARKETING)
                    Harlan, you nailed it!

                    So, if there is a bottom line, perhaps it is: it pays not to make too many assumptions and to thoroughly research an intended purchase!

                    Seeing that ‘professional’ doesn’t have to mean anything, I’m going to start referring to myself as a professional diver :D

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