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  • Replacement movement parts?

    Hi,

    A quick question and perhaps some advice from TKNZ?

    I have been given several vintage watches. Two of the watches, a Helbros (manual, Lorsa P75 movement) and a Jean-Cardot (manual, unknown suspected USSR movement), are broken. The first has a damaged or broken click spring and the later a broken stem.

    Am I right that both those parts (the click spring and stem) are uniquely related to the movement/calibre of the watch? i.e. if I want to source parts for either of those myself, I have to find either a replacement part for the particular movement or a donor movement to source the parts from?

    I was thinking about trying the replacements myself, but I suspect sourcing the parts might be just the start of my problems...

    Thanks,
    Slade.
    Last edited by sladew; 20-02-21, 15:14.

  • #2
    Hi Slade,

    Yes you are right, in my experience unless you are working with a movement that has a series of related movements that use the same basic parts you generally have to source replacements either specifically for that movement or from a donor.

    Could you post a picture of the movement in the Jean Cardot? I may be able to help with USSR parts depending on what movement it is.


    G
    Last edited by Gauss; 20-02-21, 17:57.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gauss View Post
      Hi Slade,

      Yes you are right, in my experience unless you are working with a movement that has a series of related movements that use the same basic parts you generally have to source replacements either specifically for that movement or from a donor.

      Could you post a picture of the movement in the Jean Cardot? I may be able to help with USSR parts depending on what movement it is.


      G
      Hi Gauss,

      Here's some pics of the Cardot internals. There are no stamped markings on the movement apart from 'SEVENTEEN 17 JEWELS'.

      I've taken a good look around with a nice high-power loupe, but there could still be markings hidden deeper inside the movement.

      I've read these 'Jean Cardot watches were hard currency export USSR movements with either USSR or Chinese cases. This particular model has a Hong Kong stamp on the inside of the case back.

      Let me know if you rcognize the movement or if there are clues that I can use to follow up on.

      Thanks,
      Slade.

      Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20210221_144509.jpg Views:	0 Size:	119.6 KB ID:	66341 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_20210221_144436.jpg Views:	0 Size:	162.7 KB ID:	66342
      Last edited by sladew; 21-02-21, 15:15.

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      • #4
        Woops, heres the dial side too if that helps.

        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20210221_151402.jpg
Views:	36
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ID:	66344

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        • #5
          Hi Slade, the movement in your watch is a Poljot calibre. Possibly from the 24** family.
          Preparation and planning prevent piss poor performance

          Comment


          • sladew
            sladew commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for that Id! I'll sniff about and see if I can find any info...

        • #6
          Hi Gauss,

          You might be able to help answer another question about the broken stem. The stems seem to be a fairly "simple" part.

          If I can find accurate dimensions, would it be at all possible to replace the stem with a stem off another movement with the same dimensions? I'm guessing the important dimensions are length, diameter, thread pitch.

          Am I being too simplistic? Are stems a lot more sophisticated with regard to their "uniqueness" per movement?

          I've had a good look at a couple of winding stems for the Poljot 24* family, so I can see clearly the error of my thinking they are "simple"

          I've also found a few people on eBay selling them and I see that Cousins sell some of them too. I feel I'm making a bit of progress. I hope that its forward...

          Slade.
          Last edited by sladew; 21-02-21, 17:08.

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          • #7
            One thing to be aware of is that any stem you buy will be over long for the watch. This is standard practice to accomodate different case sizes. You will have to cut it to the correct length.
            Preparation and planning prevent piss poor performance

            Comment


            • sladew
              sladew commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi, Thanks for that!

              I found a pretty some good information about measuring and cutting the winding stem down to the right size. I think I might order two, just in case I mess one up

          • #8
            I think the Captain is right, I remembered seeing this calibre a while back when I was looking around and I think what you have there in the Jean Cardot is basically a sterile Poljot 2409 movement where all of the original manufacturer markings are left off for use in foreign markets outside of the USSR (as you said above). This is what it would look like if was in a Soviet-produced Poljot watch:



            I thought that perhaps your Jean Cardot might have used a Raketa movement, as Raketa movements were used in a similar way in 'Sekonda' branded watches exported to Great Britain around the same time where the original Russian language marking were changed or removed. Below is a Raketa 2609.I calibre with all markings removed as used in a Sekonda.



            At any rate I would always try and buy parts specifically for the movement you're dealing with to avoid issues after the post inevitably takes it time to get it to you. I don't have any Poljot parts sorry, otherwise I would have been happy to just send it to you if I had a stem on hand, but there is the exact part you are looking for on eBay for the exact movement:

            https://www.ebay.com/itm/POLJOT-2409...AAAOSw~KNgHoYl

            As the Captain says above you would likely have to cut it to size or have a watchmaker do it for you which wouldn't be a huge cost I would think. Shipping is a bit of an expense given the value of the time itself but if serviced properly a Poljot 2409 should serve as a decent little timekeeper. These rebranded Soviet movements we often marketed as an affordable alternative to the cheap pin-and-plate Timexes and the like that were the mainstay of cheap watches before quartz took over. Given the origin of the calibres they were priced cheap which does not do justice to the actual reliability of them. They are solid movements and fairly simple to repair should you need to. Hope this is helpful.



            G
            Last edited by Gauss; 21-02-21, 20:29.

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            • sladew
              sladew commented
              Editing a comment
              There's a lot of great info there Gauss. Thanks, now that I've got the movement information I should be able to source the stem and the click spring.

              I really kinda like the Russian watches. There's a brutal simplicity to the best Russian industrial and military design (usually coupled with incredible tolerances...)


              Thanks for your help.

              Slade.

            • Gauss
              Gauss commented
              Editing a comment
              No worries, happy to help. And yeah, as you might be able to tell Soviet/Russian watches are a soft spot for myself as well . Russian vintage watches and parts have stayed very affordable for the most part when Japanese and Swiss vintage has gotten steadily more expensive over the years. They are great to tinker with and fix up.
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