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  • atom2's Omega Con

    Item Name: Omega Constellation
    Item Number: 1262115714
    Seller ID: atom2
    Feedback: 642 (99.4%)
    Link: http://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-watches/watches/mens-watches/vintage/auction-1262115714.htm
    Notes:



    I came across this one just a few hours ago, and saw that there is quite a bit of interest in it, so hoping this post will be seen in time to prevent someone from getting burned. This particular trader is a regular seller on the TradeMe Watch board, and if I had even a doubt that this is an honest mistake, I would courteously let him know by the Q&A or try to get in touch by other means. That is, if I had a doubt…

    This is classic almost by-the-book case of a counterfeit vintage Omega Constellation—the most counterfeited vintage Omega on the market today. It presents itself as a Constellation ST 168.041, manufactured from 1970-1975, and equipped with Omega Cal 751. I used the word “present” because the case seems to be of that Reference and the dial is made to appear as a 168.041 would. Here is an image from Omega’s database.




    And here is an example of an authentic specimen, taken from the web.


    Image source: tomvox1, OmegaForums


    If someone has a Constellation case, but does not have honesty and integrity, they will need 1) a movement to pass off as a Constellation calibre, and 2) a dial to pass off as a Constellation. Vintage Constellation movements are based on the same in-house calibres that equip lower-priced and lower-specs De Ville and Seamaster, so it is not hard to find bits of pieces of De Ville and Seamaster to cobble up a Franken-Constellation.







    Put it all together, and we have a Franken-watch, i.e. a fraudulent attempt to pass off as a Constellation to fool the unsuspecting. Watches like this one will fool most jewelers and watchmakers, due to 1) the use of all or nearly-all genuine original Omega parts, and 2) the variation in quality of Omega dials and dial scripting that existed during the 1970s and early-1980s. Watches like this will even get an insurance evaluation from some inexperienced jewelers and watchmakers, so beware!

    If you are a newbie, my sincere advice is to stay the heck away from vintage Omega, until you truly know what you’re doing—or you are under the guidance of someone who does. This cannot be stressed enough. However, I have a feeling our friend atom2 is not as clueless as he would like us to think. His pricing, as well as avoidance in answering some questions, points to the likelihood of him knowing exactly what he has in hand. Arguably, worse than the Franken-watch maker is the collector or enthusiast who, for whatever reason, finds himself owning one, but cannot be honest or man enough to just admit it, but instead wanting to hurt unsuspecting buyers by passing this junk on.
    A watch journey that also serves the betterment of others is one worth taking.

  • #2
    Thank you Don, I've seen this traders wares in past, and although not purchased, have been interested in his vintage offerings as they seemed in good condition and very affordable, so tempted...but maybe not so much now


    Live long and prosper.

    Comment


    • #3

      Thank you Don, I've seen this traders wares in past, and although not purchased, have been interested in his vintage offerings as they seemed in good condition and very affordable, so tempted...but maybe not so much now



      Thank you for the comment, Richard. This atom2 no doubt likes watches, but one of the dangers of watch collecting is that we too often infer that similar interests equal similar moral values--which in this case is clearly not. This is, by the way, not the first time that this seller has featured in Authenticate Me. Many years ago, we caught him selling a fake Rolex Explorer (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...1&id=282019117), though that topic has been purged with older ones on this sub-forum. Though seemingly a collector of vintage watches, atom2 displays little regard nor respect for fellow watch enthusiasts.

      This is the case even when said enthusiast is one of the most respected authorities on vintage Omega, Desmond Guilfoyle , from whose writing this individual blatantly copy&paste word-for-word and use in the item description for this auction (http://omega-constellation-collector...libre-751.html). Note his awareness of the inauthenticity is evident by the fact that he changed "751" to "752" to fit in with his Franken-Connie. For any self-respecting WIS, this is a real thumbs down. :thumb down:


      atoms2's Rolex Explorer Scam / Trademe Listing 282019117




      Attached files

      A watch journey that also serves the betterment of others is one worth taking.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks once again Don for providing a bridge over the murky waters These Constellations are still to my mind travelling "under the radar" and are well worth picking up if you can find one unmolested. :thumbup:
        Preparation and planning prevent piss poor performance

        Comment


        • #5

          Thanks once again Don for providing a bridge over the murky waters These Constellations are still to my mind travelling "under the radar" and are well worth picking up if you can find one unmolested. :thumbup:



          Much appreciated for your comment, Alex, and I do indeed agree that they are currently overlooked to some extent. It hasn’t always been this way, however. If you think about it, the very fact that something has been replicated or fraudulently copied does imply that at some point in the past, the model was highly desirable. This is one instance of that.

          A little over a decade ago, I was a narrowed-minded Swiss-only watch snob (I was young and naive ), and I use to live and breathe vintage Omega, hunting them in the wild whenever I got the chance. The most collectible of them all were the Constellations, especially the mid-500 Series, which this Franken-watch is trying to pass of as. Authentic original examples have always been expensive, but there has been little market price rise this decade, due partly to the market’s interest shifting to larger-sized sports watches, i.e. chronographs and divers. The other reason for the price stagnation is Omega’s marketing emphasis away from what was the prime essence of the historical Constellation models, i.e. ultra-high precision watches, the last of which was the Constellation Double Eagle 1511.51, equipped with Omega Cal 1680 (thermal compensated).

          With the recent release of the Omega Constellation Globemaster though yet to be widespread, we may see Omega returning one day to its roots. I definitely think there’s no better time than now to acquire a vintage Contellation. There’s a lot of reason to get them. These watches came from the golden age of mechanical watch technology, the peak of which occurred in the late-1960s.

          They came from a time when Omega was on top of its game—and that game was different from their current game of brand image bolstering. Omega’s game during the 60s was designing and mass producing high-grade mechanical watches, competing neck to neck with the likes of Rolex and Girard-Perregaux. Not only that, it was an era when a movement's performance, accuracy, and precision—not brand ambassadors and product placement—sold watches.

          Omega was actually the last Swiss Manufacture to beat Seiko at the Swiss Observatory Chronometry Trials, last held at the Neuchâtel Observatory in 1967. That year, Omega won First Place, while the two divisions of Seiko, Daini Seikosha and Suwa Seikosha, took out Second and Third Places respectively. To have beaten Seiko that year, the final year of the Swiss Observatory Chronometry Trials, was no small feat, and deserves more recognition and association than these vintage Omega get now.

          I believe that the vast majority of Franken-Constellations were put together from around 2000 to 2008, and what we see now in the market from watches cobbled up together during this period of peak interest in vintage Constellation. Less fake Connies are being built up now compared to vintage sports models like the Omega Seamaster divers.
          A watch journey that also serves the betterment of others is one worth taking.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you Don, With my very limited understanding I feel very vulnerable and posts like this not only help me understand but prevent me having a wrong Watch on my wrist.
            Cheers
            ibrar


            Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

            Comment


            • #7
              So, is atom2 who is selling listing 1262115714 and who calls himself 'Paul' on that site the same person as Desmond Guilfoyle, posting here, on 'Omega Constellation Collectors Blogspot'

              http://omega-constellation-collector...libre-751.html





              Attached files

              Comment


              • #8
                Isn't Don suggesting that Desmond Guilfoyle is a legitimate and well regarded authority figure on Omega vintage...but Atom2 has plagiarized Desmond's work? That's how I read Don's post...


                Live long and prosper.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Isn't Don suggesting that Desmond Guilfoyle is a legitimate and well regarded authority figure on Omega vintage...but Atom2 has plagiarized Desmond's work? That's how I read Don's post...
                  ...



                  Richard, I think rolex was just up to his usual sarcasm :P ...in relation to the copied quote: "...judging by the number of enquiries I receive about these Omega Constellation models...", when "I" originally referred to the author of the blog, Desmond.
                  A watch journey that also serves the betterment of others is one worth taking.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Trademe Listing 1262115714 'Omega Constellation'

                    http://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-w...1262115714.htm


                    The Omega Constellation calibre 752 collection was powered by the last great series of high-value movements manufactured by Omega before the onset of the Swiss Crisis of the mid-1970s. The day-date calibre 752 can trace its origins back to the famous chronometer calibre 551 and is every bit as good as its mid-500 calibre siblings. And judging by the number of enquiries I receive about these Omega Constellation models, interest in collecting them is increasing. - atom2



                    Omega Constellation Collectors Blog


                    The Omega Constellation calibre 751 collection was powered by the last great series of high-value movements manufactured by Omega before the onset of the Swiss Crisis of the mid-1970s. The day-date calibre 751 can trace its origins back to the famous chronometer calibre 551 and is every bit as good as its mid-500 calibre siblings. And judging by the number of enquiries I receive about these Omega Constellation models, interest in collecting them is increasing. - Desmond Guilfoyle

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's pretty shameless! And passes him/her self off as the mighty Desmond!


                      Live long and prosper.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good question Tigermantis. There are members of this forum who could write books about trying to expose, stop this type of fraudulent behaviour. Many have given up after dealing with threats, legal threats, indifference from selling platforms, indifference from the police and surprisingly, abuse from other buyers who are quite happy with their frankenwatch.
                        Disheartening? Yep.
                        “I want to touch base on how we’ll synergize the pivot going forward”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Same watch back up on TM today?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by South Poll View Post
                            Same watch back up on TM today?
                            Excellent spotting, South Poll ...Yes indeed, it seems ( https://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-...f02bfd528893d8 ), and this time supposedly from an "NZ trained Trade Certified Watchmaker"

                            This really goes to confirm that I said in the opening post...


                            Originally posted by Don View Post
                            ...Watches like this one will fool most jewelers and watchmakers, ...
                            TradeMe was good enough to have pulled the original listing by atom2, so hopefully, based on the same reasoning, this one will be taken off too. Let's see what happens, but to help TradeMe, here's hard proof from the Omega Vintage Database for this Ref.
                            ST 168.041, showing the correct movement caliber the watch should have...



                            Last edited by Don; 04-08-18, 12:02.
                            A watch journey that also serves the betterment of others is one worth taking.

                            Comment

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