Sarah1919 / Rolex Oyster 15010 in SS with Oyster bracelet / TM: 1577446317

[myonlyrolex]

Item Name: Rolex Oyster 15010 in SS with Oyster bracelet
Item Number: 1577446317
Seller ID: startisreserve
Feedback: 58 / 0 / 0
Link: www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1577446317

Notes: Before you opening the listing look carefully at the gallery photo,look at the TM members name in the corner off the photo

https://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-...6242cafd433580

Seller Description:

'Rolex Oyster 15010 in SS with Oyster bracelet

Lovely mint Rolex Oyster perpetual selfwinding automatic with Oyster bracelet in SS and an engine turned SS bezel. Really nice watch indeed. Condition is nothing short of remarkable. From a large rolex collection and only worn a few times. It presents in as new condition. This really is a stunning Rolex in everyway and its a great looking watch as well.

Rolex Oyster
Perpetual automatic self winding
Model 15010
Date
Circa 1981
Black dial
Movement: 1570 automatic
Engine turned bezel (really nice)
Rolex Oyster bracelet with all links
Mint as new all round condition
Will come with fresh service
All 100% original Rolex, no aftermarket parts.

This is a really great price for this nice Rolex.

Photos from all angles so you can see the stunning condition this Rolex is in for yourself. Our feedback speaks for itself when talking of condition and service so take time and check out our feedback. When we say its mint and as new, it really is. Many buyers have come back to buy more.

Not many of these around so be in quick. The last one sold really fast. I really like this style. And with the black dial it looks amazing on the wrist.

This is a 100% authentic Rolex, can authenticate at any jeweller or Rolex agent for the buyer at their cost with a 100% money back guarantee if required. (sarah1919 aka David & Dennis & Davo & Sarah Kite et al.)'

'I purchased this watch on Trademe from seller sarah1919 on 07/10/11.
I've only worn this a couple of times.
This is the original listing details and original photos aswell.
The last photo is of the watch at time of listing, the only difference is the small blemish above the 12 hour marker on the crystal.

Start is reserve no buy now

Collection is from Onehunga'

[Don]

Good work spotting!

For anyone who is unfamiliar with the background story, please see... https://www.timekeeper.co.nz/forum/w...kite-sarah1919 ...or if you know the seller, startisreserve, and you would like to bring the above link to his attention.

[harlansmart]

Very good spotting myonlyrolex

Interesting & extremely familiar listing this, the little pictures Choi / induck2005 took almost popping out of the grave as it were:

- Item was listed on a day when success fees are free (see below).

- item was listed at low (no?) reserve. Reserve is met startISreserve (see below).

- Item was sourced from Sth Korean 'Rolex Watch Creator', ebay member induck2005.

- No feedback for 07/10/11 purchase for item appears on startisreserve account (see below).

- sarah1919 aka induck2005 watches, have been shown often to have parts from many watches from many era's and are proven to contain many non-genuine parts, fake parts, non-original parts, incorrect parts & modified parts etc.


It is not kosher, to on-sell, a watch, if you know it is dodgy, we do not know if startisreserve is aware of any of the sarah1919 / Dave Kite Rolex scam. As we have seen, many people do not know that the watch they bought from sarah1919 is not kosher till many years later. Many still do not know they were duped & many never will know.


myonlyrolex, gosh, took me a while to figure out where you were getting the image with the 2011 sarah1919 watermark from, finally figured it out... knew it was there but didn't know how you had it so clear! You got it from the gallery.... so gallery shows the original images/waterkmarking!


Forum search sarah1919 results, 8 pages of interesting reading:

https://www.timekeeper.co.nz/search?...arah1919%22%7D


- Wow, so the original watermark appears uncovered in gallery images!

- Unsure whether the use of 7yo images is appropriate.




- startISreserve, certainly, 41 Watchers already hence, Reserve Met, NZD2500 & ongoing...




- Original sale/purchase of the item from sarah1919 in 2011 does not appear on startisreserve FB pages




- Great day to list, FREE SUCCESS FEES !!!

[harlansmart]

Actually this particular watch can (and probably does) have pretty much any calibre, any part, any movement whatsoever in it









Rolex by Year / Model & Calibre etc

[Stevo_iwc]

Man those pictures bring back some memories guys. None of them pleasant I’m afraid. Classic info re the incorrect movement. Highlights what the whole Franken / Korean chop shop problem was from the beginning. Many of these watches were sold outside trademe eh Harlan, which is why it mightn’t show in the sellers feedback.
Hard case to think that these current pictures are from 6 or 7 years ago and were originally taken in Korea by Induck long before the watch even arrived in NZ.

[harlansmart]

Question: What does 'verified this rolex' mean?





Item has been apparently 'verified'..

But lets just recap, focusing on the case & movement stamps, defining elements of a 'Rolex'.


1. We see an item which has a case from the 70's clearly stamped 15010. Note: It is not stamped 1500.

2. We see an item which has a movement from the 1960's clearly stamped 1570. Note: It is not stamped 3135.


That would make it, er, 'non-original' & 'non-genuine' & 'made from parts' & 'made from watches of different models' & 'made from watches from different era's', would it not, as far as any collector, or any Rolex AD or RSC is concerned?

A item like this, raises other concerns also, other concerns as to 'authenticity', but to a genuine person further concerns are largely irrelevent.






Outcome of 'verification'..




Watch Movement Clearly Stamped 1570 (not 3035).




Watch Case Clearly Stamped 15010 (not 1500).





Verification states 'Case Reference 1500' & 'Case Serial 5.1m'..





100 Watchers...

[Brucy]

Great info guys, thanks heaps for the very informative reading

Isn’t there any issue where if the inside of the lugs where the stamp is not smooth / polished / brushed it’s more than likely a fake case?

[Don]

...

Isn’t there any issue where if the inside of the lugs where the stamp is not smooth / polished / brushed it’s more than likely a fake case?

Brucy, that can be considered a valid observation. However, I don’t encourage you to think of authentication in that way, because when someone has yet to gain enough knowledge and experience, it’s hard for them to differentiate between observation and qualifier. That is, when you start putting too much emphasis on a particular characteristic, you’re more likely to make the mistake of, say, “perfect stamping = genuine watch”, without considering other aspects of the watch. It’s easy for our shortcut-loving brains to equate a lack of error in stamping (a commonly observed characteristic) as being a qualifier for authenticity.

To give you an analogy, let's imagine that horses are rare animals and someone wanted to teach you how to identify a horse. The person shows you a horse, and tells you that this horse is brown and has four legs. If you confuse these very valid observations for qualifiers, you might point out a "horse", and be pointing at a brown dog, for which the same observations can be made. If you came to me, however, I would first explain to you what a horse is, how many types there are, differences in types, what colours are possible, and what other animals that might be easily mistaken as a horse. I would do this so that you’ll know what to expect when you see one.

That is, Know the Watch and Understand Authenticity Issues related to that watch (read https://www.timekeeper.co.nz/forum/w...9458#post39458 )

Vintage watch authenticating is one of the very few areas in life where the Good Guys whom society has entrusted the job to (jewelers and watchmakers) are always a few steps behind the Bad Guys. It is such because most jewelers, watchmakers, and novice buyers think in Finite—they have a check list that is often ineffective or out of date. The Counterfeiters, on the other hand, do not think in “finite”. They think in Possibilities.

Jewelers and watchmakers have X number of ways to authenticate a watch. The Counterfeiters have an infinite number of ways to make one. To stay ahead of the counterfeiters, we must adopt their ways and think in Possibilities.

[myonlyrolex]

Gee i should not have poked that stick into the hornets nest

[harlansmart]

+1 Sensei.

And it might well be a really really nice, a truly lovely looking brown 4 legged creature, but if it is a dog, then it just simply ain't a horse.

you might point out a "horse", and be pointing at a brown dog

You will possibly save someone from receiving unknowingly another of the sarah1919 chop shop franken-watches.

Gee i should not have poked that stick into the hornets nest

[Brucy]

Thank you H & D for the reply and words of wisdom

Love the dog and horse analogy... for a novice like me though I would liken this to a series of streams if like this example the first stream is Sarah 19 or a fake case and you can’t cross it then you give the whole lot a swerve at the first hurdle.

Building on the knowledge you guys impart here I now try and examine the rest of it.

Thanks again gents

[captainscarlet1]

This one is back
Listing #: 1590724916

[captainscarlet1]

Well, I'm a bit confused. I would have thought that this TM listing would have been interesting to some......Oh well

[Don]

Well, I'm a bit confused. I would have thought that this TM listing would have been interesting to some......Oh well

Sorry to respond to this thread late, Alex. Saw it last night, but hadn't actually looked at the new listing. Here's the link to the relisting... https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Lis...?id=1590724916 ...I see how the damning Reference-between-the-lugs photo has conveniently been omitted.





What I think we should note is that this new listing would be how one would expect sarah1919's watches to be sold on on TradeMe, i.e. without mention of the source of the watch nor images showing the case reference nor movement. No doubt some would have already been sold on, while others will eventually make their way to the market with the seller knowing or otherwise about the authenticity issues. The outcome of the original listing also shows how many in the market either do not care about authenticity, or can only "see" what they know, and they apparently don't know a lot.

[harlansmart]

Scott is not longer listing it from startisreserve but rather from a different account called whazup




What he said....

'.... we should note is that this new listing would be how one would expect sarah1919's watches to be sold on on TradeMe, i.e. without mention of the source of the watch nor images showing the case reference nor movement....'