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  • Rolex Oyster Precision with BOX

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ID:	40689 Ok the watch im sure is genuine but the Box mmmmmm your thoughts

    https://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-...1f33871535f536

  • #2
    Item Name: Rolex Oyster Precision with box
    Item Number: 1585854466
    Seller ID: captainowesome
    Feedback: 29 / 0 / 0
    Link: https://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-...8f564652753277
    Seller Description: '
    This is a beautiful Rolex Oyster Precision in excellent condition. working order and keeping accurate time. This is a manual wind movement stainless steel bracelet 78350'

    Notes:
    Impossible to tell if the watch is genuine or fake, the images are too poor.
    However, the box fills the frame sufficiently to be certain that it, is a fake 'Rolex' boxset.
    Perhaps this is why the seller says '
    Rolex Oyster Precision with box​​​​​​​', to indicate the rectangular item is simply that, a 'box'?
    This again, is one reason why the sellers of counterfeit accessories /
    provenance are so troublesome, such items add false 'credence'.

    This is where sarah1919 did so so well, they seldom bought fake accessories to go with the fake watches, they bought a lot of genuine boxsets and hangtags & all that sort of stuff very early on from a reliable source. I know that by the time they had sold 3 watches via trademe they had additionally purchased a lot of 30 boxsets and a lot of booklets, tags and so on, all genuine.

    But yeah, this boxset here, can't do anything any favours... it's like Don has been saying, in the thread (beneath) there are different tiers of fakes & sellers of fakes... it's pretty clever to have a 1/2 fake, you pull most of the wool over most of the punters eyes.

    https://www.timekeeper.co.nz/forum/watch-forums/watch-out-–-authenticate-me/40364-sarah1919-rolex-oyster-15010-in-ss-with-oyster-bracelet-tm-1577446317



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    But still, fake is fake.
    ​​​​​​​There is no middle ground.
    Otherwise there would be a word in the dictionary for it, oh but there is, Franken-Watch

    Harlan
    Timekeeper Watch Club
    Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi myonlyrolex and Harlan,
      Thanks for this post. As I am fairly new to this hobby and still learning, may I ask what gives it away that the Rolex box is fake?
      Much appreciated.
      Mike.

      Comment


      • #4
        may I ask what gives it away that the Rolex box is fake? = msh

        Sure, let me explain.... have a spare 2-3 hours to kill




        Expose #1

        Item Name: COMPLETE EMPTY BOX ETC FOR ROLEX WATCH.
        Item Number: 1301751606
        Seller ID: taupoi
        Feedback: 846 /1/ 1


        Link: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...?id=1301751606

        Seller Description:

        AN EMPTY ROLEX WATCH BOX AS PER PHOTOS. BEEN MINE FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS. NO WATCH AS SOME BUGGER STOLE IT SEVERAL YEARS AGO. MAYBE SOMEBODY HAS LOST THEIR BOX AND WOULD HAVE A GENUINE USE FOR IT. - taupoi

        Notes:

        China was not manufacturing these fake boxsets 'about 25 years ago' - impossible to have had it 25 years.

        See how completely new it appears, a box, '25 years old' that stored a watch for decades..

        See the colours, and textures.. see the pillow & pillow cover is way way way too white, completely the wrong color & wrong material... see the front flap is rounded not pointy, everything is wrong with this boxset vs genuine, it's not even one of the better fakes.

        Fake provenance like this is used to aid the sale of counterfeit items.



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        Harlan
        Timekeeper Watch Club
        Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

        Comment


        • #5
          Now... the search function can be really handy, for instance in this case, you will see, that the fake 'Rolex' boxset & fake 'Rolex' link were reported, by an expert who knows much much much much more that everyone combined at TM, yet was typically ignored.

          The fake 'Rolex' boxset and fake 'Rolex' link are now also in the hands of an entity who we've seen on these pages, so they are buying & selling watches,

          Think about it... fake parts like this get used to falsely add credence to fake watches,

          Fake boxes & fale parts end up supporting fake watches, thats a fact.

          vip-crystal bought this fake, despite seeing assumedly the Q & A

          I think its incredibly silly behaviour, plus illegal too!

          Fake is Fake, Period, Fake is Fake.

          There is No Middle Ground.




          Expose #2

          https://www.timekeeper.co.nz/forum/watch-forums/watch-out-–-authenticate-me/36137-yet-another-fake-rolex-watch-box-seller-hunney-bun-trademe-listing-1393521186

          Item Name: Rolex watch box
          Item Number: 1393521186
          Seller ID: hunney-bun
          Feedback: 140 /4 / 0
          Link: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...1186&archive=1



          Seller Description: Picked this up at a garage sale a few years ago. There was a bracelet link in the box so i will include it in the sale. The outer box is damaged at the bottom of one end and held together with tape - hunney-bun

          Notes: Seller does not allow pickups. Fakes getting successfully sold, (hundreds and hundreds) and they are really well covered here in the forum, so if you want to know what makes this obvious counterfeit item a nasty fake simply spend time to read the forum and you will see many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of counterfeit rolex & other watches get washed through this local 'ma & pa' auction site :thumbdown:

          vip-crystal must have been feeling generous, they could have bid the reserve $10 to win, but decided to tip funny-bun the fraudster yet another $15 on top....

          Lets face it, soon as a seller says 'no pickups' we know its likely fake, when its come from a garage sale, from a wealthy homestay of from the 'President on Lembotha' we know that the chances of it being real Patek Philippe Sky Moon Tourbillon is slimmer than a really slim thing.


          Trademe 'Trust & Safety' has turned into a something far from perfect the last few years, I used to report hundreds & hundreds of fakes, however mostly now they just let these auction's for fakes run, I mean 'don't I freaking know what I am doing' or something.... do they have access to someone with more experience than me (who would that be?) I don't any more these days bother too often to report via Community Watch fakes like this, coz it would occupy half my day and it is wholly ineffective /pointless to do so and it is frustrating to see a Rolex with a glass back that you reported getting bids & selling. It is a fact, we can all see, that it is plain, that most people have no idea what they are doing anymore with counterfeit items and clearly cannot identify the fake from genuine (same goes with bags).

          More often than not, I see genuine sellers with genuine items being attacked and accused of being fake than the slippery sister with the nasty fake.

          Such an obvious & nasty fake like this, that was reported, allowed to be freely listed, AND sold to vip-crystal

          Most disgusting thing, is they knew darned bloody well that the POS was fake, despite this, honkey-bun went and cheekily added a Buy Now to try & get their nasty little fraud over & done with fast and taken off-air just as fast as they lying nasty dishonest little fingers could stab the keyboard to add a Buy Now....... that is a really shitty thing to do.... sadly, it is just typical nowadays.

          Goes to show, you can freely list such fakes, tell porkies, and happily sell your known counterfeit items, even R O L E X items with no fear whatsoever of your listing being questioned & you being censured.

          JM2CW



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          Harlan
          Timekeeper Watch Club
          Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

          Comment


          • #6
            Heres some pictures, of GENUNE ROLEX 68.00.XX Boxsets & GENUINE ROLEX Watches and GENUINE ROLEX Provenance & GENUINE ROLEX Accessories...... focus on just one single detail at a time, when you are learning to authenticate, really study the finest details super closely, pic shape, sharpness, quality, position, texture, colour, hue, location... just pick one thing and compare vs 'known genuine'.

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            Harlan
            Timekeeper Watch Club
            Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

            Comment


            • #7
              Heres some more pictures, of GENUNE ROLEX 68.00.xx Boxsets & GENUINE ROLEX Watches and GENUINE ROLEX Provenance & GENUINE ROLEX Accessories.... not much changes with these items over the years, output of production runs generally remain very consistent... for this reason IMVHO it is actually very easy to spot fake boxsets, fake hangtags, fake COSC's, fake booklets etc... once you know what to look for, and you stop dreaming & hoping for it to be real etc & trusting all the seller hype ... or you could learn like I did by regularly handling over the years very high numbers of genuine pieces... I can usually tell a fake Rolex with my eyes closed, don't need to see it normally....

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              Normally I can tell by the way a piece its described to me, the words the 'seller' uses, what they say... seeing the watch isn't normal necessary,
              i.e. 'it was gifted to me by a rich Uncle who lives in Dubai' etc instantly create serious doubts the watch can be genuine
              The word 'gift' actually means 'fake' >95% of the time for starters
              Harlan
              Timekeeper Watch Club
              Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

              Comment


              • #8
                Couple more, pix of GENUNE ROLEX 68.00.XX Boxsets & GENUINE ROLEX Watches and GENUINE ROLEX Provenance & GENUINE ROLEX Accessories... just focus on single things, compare closely, might be texture, a pattern, the location of something, just focus on one thing, the stitching say & compare... if it's not right then it is wrong, there isn't 'an in-between'... you will soon learn to spot the differences...

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                Harlan
                Timekeeper Watch Club
                Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

                Comment


                • #9
                  This (see link to full thread beneath) is an in-depth look, at GENUINE (LEFT) vs Fake (RIGHT) Omega Boxsets, might be well worth a read... this clown was getting them from China where they're about USD130 per dozen units and flogging them on WUS, he'd sold hundreds & because he'd sold hundreds, thought I'd buy a dozen, upon receipt, noticed they were fake, showed him why (i.e. pix vs 'known genuine') but realised he knew only too well.

                  Was EXTREMELY hard to get the cash back, ended up having to liase the NZ Customs & Police and have them all officially destroyed... BNZ VISA reversed the payment but it took a LONG time, PayPal were utterly 100% utterly useless too, they wanted us to send the counterfeit items back to the fraudster ILLEGALLY across the NZL/AUS border.... so of course allowing the fraudster opportunity to sell them again

                  Amazing though, that all those hundreds of WUS members buying them were so seemingly utterly stupid & completely gullible... and it was amazingly hard for us to even get WUS to act!

                  This clown, this watchuseek (WUS) member yande aka Mark McNamara was still selling them even as the thread (below) was LIVE ONLINE.



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                  Watchuseek (WUS) member yande aka Mark McNamara is selling fake Omega Boxsets - the fake boxsets, beneath) handed to the NZ Police & were destroyed as the the
                  Harlan
                  Timekeeper Watch Club
                  Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This amazing knowledge by its members was the reason I joined this forum . Many thanks for this sharing of your knowledge . Have a great Easter . Gerald

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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks H and that is a lovely Oyster Perpetual Date BTW.

                      That’s a shame about the WUS attitude, you would think they’d be all over it

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The auction was withdrawn by trademe but they have gone and relisted

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by harlansmart View Post
                          ,,,Amazing though, that all those hundreds of WUS members buying them were so seemingly utterly stupid & completely gullible... and it was amazingly hard for us to even get WUS to act!
                          ...


                          I think this possibly stems from, firstly, the fact that a large proportion of watch enthusiasts sees authenticity of box sets and accessories as being of lesser importance than the authenticity of the watch. This is despite another fact that box sets are nearly always bought and sold for the purpose of increasing the value and attractiveness of an offer, and that the collecting communities know that the general public has a misplaced trust in “box & papers”. The other possible reason is that the majority of those WUS buyers, aka victims of the counterfeit sales, have sold their Omega using those fake box sets, and will not take action that would be self-implicating. At best, they stay silent, and at worst, they get defensive and come out supporting the seller, purely because it would be a defense of the box sets the members themselves have bought—we all tend to think honourable watch lovers would never do something like that, yet we see it happen all the time.


                          Originally posted by harlansmart View Post
                          ...
                          This again, is one reason why the sellers of counterfeit accessories / provenance are so troublesome, such items add false 'credence'.

                          This is where sarah1919 did so so well, they seldom bought fake accessories to go with the fake watches, they bought a lot of genuine boxsets and hangtags & all that sort of stuff very early on from a reliable source. I know that by the time they had sold 3 watches via trademe they had additionally purchased a lot of 30 boxsets and a lot of booklets, tags and so on, all genuine.

                          But yeah, this boxset here, can't do anything any favours...


                          Some thoughts I’d like to share on this… I’ve said a lot about identifying the perpetrators, both those knowingly perpetrating and unknowingly doing so. We’ve also discussed tools that we can use to identify the inauthentic and to avoid buying such watches. There is another aspect I’ve yet to talk about. As in all types of Prevention (disease prevention, crime prevention, etc.), it is useful to know how much one is “at risk” of being a victim, because just as in human disease and crime, some of us are more at risk than others of buying, in particular, non-genuine Rolex, especially vintage Rolex.

                          My observations over the last decade or so has narrowed down certain traits that lends one more susceptible to falling a victim of fake Rolex. If you fall into, or answer “yes” to, two or more of these, you need to back off from pulling the trigger until you are in a better position to make an informed decision.


                          1) This is either your first Rolex or your first vintage Rolex.

                          2) This will be the most expensive watch you will have purchased to date.

                          3) The asking price puts this particular Rolex within your budget
                          , while most others of the same model are outside of your budget.

                          4) You believe there to be a safety net of some sort that can unequivocally guarantee the authenticity of a Rolex, e.g. valuation from a jeweler or watchmaker.

                          5) You believe that, using Google, you can quickly read up on, watch and follow YouTubers, and become proficient in identifying genuine vintage Rolex, within a short time.

                          6) This is the difficult soul-searching one that requires being honest to yourself… Throughout the consideration or decision-making process, the primary image or visual fantasy that runs through your mind is one that revolves around how others—your friends, relatives, work colleagues, or business associates—would perceive of you wearing this Rolex. Examine the fantasy and focus on the feelings you experienceis it fulfillment? Does it make you feel internally more worthy? Does it make other emotional pains more bearable? Does the fantasy always involve another person(s)? ...This is hard, I understand, but it is very important, because acts of deceptions are not only played at the physical object level, but at the emotional level as well.

                          Traits 1, 2, 4, and 5 are based on the reasons why more watch scams involve Rolex than any other brands. I recently wrote that Breguet is a true high-end brand with price tags to match, but no one makes a living off scamming people to buy fake Breguets. Due to Rolex's popularity, people, through a feeling of familiarity, think they know more about Rolex watches when they actually have little or no knowledge about. Buyers mistakenly think that can easily obtain accurate information on Rolex when the opposite is true. Authenticating a Rolex is an area of expertise that is further than most people think they can read up on.

                          Trait 3 is a warning that you are attracted to a deal that is too good to pass up. Most adults have heard and are frequently warned of deals that are too good to be true. So, the sophisticated con artist ensures that his deal is NOT to too to be true, but is still too good to pass up. To sell a $4000 watch for $500 is too good to be true, but to sell the same watch for $2,500 is NOT too good to be true, but too good to pass up.

                          Trait 6 highlights a flaw us humans have—Confirmation Bias—and how this bias affects our ability to make good judgment about a potential purchase. To quote Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn,

                          It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes... we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions—especially selfish ones.”

                          If you answered “yes” to No. 6, you want so very badly for this watch to be an authentic Rolex. Your otherwise-rational brain that normally seeks to get an accurate picture of reality now just looks for anything that confirms “genuine” and that brings about the outcome you badly desire. You latch onto anything remotely hinting at authenticity—box, documentations, valuations (despite the “no responsibility” disclaimer it contains), service receipts (as if “fake” movements are not serviceable movements), or unsubstantiated provenance or stories—because they bring you a step closer to making that visual fantasy a reality. The confirmation bias blinds you from anything contradictory to this authenticity —why should it pay attention to what’s seemingly standing in the way of making a dream come true?

                          Nearly all of us here are male, and I can relate this to you as like when, at some stage of our lives, we may have met a girl whom we found incredibly attractive from the first moment we met her. At the time, when thinking of this girl, we weren’t using our logical reasoning to assess our attraction, but rather it was purely emotional. This reflected on the mental image or fantasy that played out in our minds, of possibilities, of intimacy, of relationships, or whatever else we sought. We wanted it to be real so bad that any hint of virtues coming from her would have been magnified, substantiated, and would qualify her in our eyes—we intentionally looked for her good points because we were biased towards our fantasy.

                          All the while, we likely ignored all the signs that points to her shortcomings, because focusing on those would have prevented us from making the fantasy real.


                          Back to Rolex... One suggestion that I have recommended buyers do to try and circumvent the confirmation bias that plagues our decision-making is to imagine, throughout the consideration process, that the watch is not for our own use. Tell yourself instead that you are purchasing for your father or brother whom you truly care about and for whom this will be their one and only Rolex. Make yourself believe that it is your sole responsibility to ensure the watch is 100% authentic, not just “genuine enough” or “genuine depends who you ask” or “looks genuine”. Thinking in this manner, you will be more cautious, take more time, and instead of wishing and praying for authenticity to usher in your fantasy, you will concentrate on disproving authenticity—the right mindset for good judgment.
                          Last edited by Don; 01-04-18, 16:00.
                          A watch journey that also serves the betterment of others is one worth taking.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep, its back again in Listing 1588465848 ... wonder why re-list including the fake box again... the box needs the bin/destruction & the watch could do with better detailing.

                            https://www.trademe.co.nz/jewellery-...7a307e14230c17

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                            =============

                            You've got a few numbers, that really should all match, be congruent, and be present, hopefully be listed, perhaps photographed as supporting evidence... if they all check out, you have a 'ROLEX',

                            Example: on an ordinary, say Year 2000 16610 Submariner 7 numbers must all check out:

                            1. ROLEX Case Reference Number
                            2. ROLEX Case Serial Number
                            3. ROLEX Calibre Number
                            4. ROLEX Calibre Serial Number
                            5. ROLEX Clasp Reference Number
                            6. ROLEX Clasp Date Code Number
                            ​​​​​​​7. ROLEX End Piece Reference Number


                            A really decent seller, expert, can easily list all 7, and sometimes will even photograph all 7 of these numbers when marketing the 16610

                            =============

                            I think it's so often Trait #6 (above) that causes the peoples brains to simply jam up & become semi-dysfunctional... the desperate need in an unlearned way to have to have that TT rollie (even if it's a 14k stretched to buggery franken-rolex)... just so long as they can jump up, when someone casually asks the time, and say, 'it's ROLEX o'clock'.

                            =============

                            Don, if I had any skill, or rather any computer skills in say 'app making' we'd turn your flow charts and so on into an app... where people can decide on the purchase properly by answering the hard questions!

                            =============
                            ​​​​​​​



                            4) You believe there to be a safety net of some sort that can unequivocally guarantee the authenticity of a Rolex, e.g. valuation from a jeweler or watchmaker.
                            Harlan
                            Timekeeper Watch Club
                            Auckland, New Zealand, Pacific Ocean, Earth

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Don View Post
                              Nearly all of us here are male, and I can relate this to you as like when, at some stage of our lives, we may have met a girl whom we found incredibly attractive from the first moment we met her. At the time, when thinking of this girl, we weren’t using our logical reasoning to assess our attraction, but rather it was purely emotional. This reflected on the mental image or fantasy that played out in our minds, of possibilities, of intimacy, of relationships, or whatever else we sought. We wanted it to be real so bad that any hint of virtues coming from her would have been magnified, substantiated, and would qualify her in our eyes—we intentionally looked for her good points because we were biased towards our fantasy.
                              All the while, we likely ignored all the signs that points to her shortcomings, because focusing on those would have prevented us from making the fantasy real.
                              Some great points there Don, PS..... I'm sending this from my mud hut filled with fake Rolex watches and reminiscing about all my failed relationships
                              Preparation and planning prevent piss poor performance

                              Comment


                              • Don
                                Don commented
                                Editing a comment
                                Appreciate that, Alex ...FWIW, I’m not totally immune to the things I observe, here and elsewhere, and fail at some things sometimes. As a matter of fact, I won’t have it any other way—being vulnerable to Life’s lessons is the price one pays for access to Life’s beauty… However, it is crucial that we have full awareness of our weaknesses, because if we don’t, various entities will eventually find ways to exploit those vulnerabilities, reframe them, and present them to us as being our “aspirations”. They can then further manipulate us for their own gain... Happens all the time, and the worse thing is that most of it is legal.
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