Galloping SARB033

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brian245
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Galloping SARB033

Post by brian245 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:09 am

Hi,

I bought a SARB033 a while ago and it has always run fast but seems to be speeding up as it 'runs in' .
I am wondering, how long should I wait before getting it adjusted?
Any advice please

Thanks

Brian

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Don
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Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by Don » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:00 am

Hi Brian,

Cal 6R15's specified daily rate is -15/+25 sec. How much is your watch gaining by, and how are you measuring it?
Don

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brian245
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by brian245 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:48 am

Hi Don,

It started off gaining around 22 secs per day, so was within tolerance, if only just, but is now up to about 33 secs
I am checking time from https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ ... d/auckland

Cheers,

Brian

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Don
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Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by Don » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:48 pm

brian245 wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:48 am
It started off gaining around 22 secs per day, so was within tolerance, if only just, but is now up to about 33 secs
I am checking time from https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ ... d/auckland
22 sec/day is within range, but unusual for a 6R15, which normally does a lot better than that out of the box. You used the word "run-in", so I assume that this SARB033 was recently purchased new. Sorry, I didn’t make my question clear, and actually meant how you measure or calculate the rate—I assume that it is not from a vibrograph—but that’s okay :) . I am guessing also that you are timing the watch on your wrist.

Before you run off to get the case back cracked open, I’d like to ask that you run a proper timing test, “static” on a flat surface, off the wrist. This will isolate the accuracy of the movement from your “personal error” due to the variation on how we each wear our watches. I see watch reviewers and enthusiasts quoting on-the-wrist accuracy all the time, and it doesn’t actually mean poop nor that I will achieve the same wearing their watches. Could you please do the following and let me know how it goes in a few days’ time?

1) Wind the mainspring up fully. This means that, if the movement is not running, the 6R15 needs around 50-60 turns to be fully wound. Stop when you feel the resistance increase significantly. The watch, left unworn, should now run for just over two days.

2) Set the time using an atomic time server, e.g. US Naval Observatory Master Clock ( http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/time/disp ... simpletime ) or NIST ( http://time.gov/widget/widget.html ). Just ignore the “hour”. Check that the difference between the atomic time and your watch is “0 sec”.

3) Time in any 5 of the following positions: Crown-Up (CU), Crown-Down (CD), Crown-Right (CR), Crown-Left (CL), Dial-Up (DU), Dial-Down (DD). For each position, the watch is to be left undisturbed for around 6 hours, at the end of which you check the time with the atomic clock. You just check visually between your sweep seconds and the screen, or you can use a digital camera to take a snap shot of the dial against the screen, and check from the photo. Don’t make approximations with the elapse time, but be precise, e.g. if 7hr 10m has elapsed, it is 7.167 hr.

4) For each position, calculate the accuracy in sec/day, rounding off to the nearest whole number. Before the power reserve is exhausted, you should be able to time in 5 positions. The average (mean) of these five figures is your watch’s daily rate. Is the result within -15/+25? …Which positions “gains” and which ones “loses”. Take note also of the “spread” or range of the rates, which is the movement’s precision, a much more significant indication of the grade and/or health of the movement than the accuracy. While the movement can be regulated to average close to +/-0, this precision factor cannot be easily changed.

5) Wind the watch fully again and setting the time against the atomic clock, ensuring there is “0 sec” difference. Wear the watch on your regular activity day, from morning to evening, and at the end of that day, check the accuracy against the atomic clock. The difference between this on-the-wrist rate, and the daily rate of the movement is your personal error. For some watches on some people, the difference can be as much as 30 sec/day.

If you do have this watch regulated and would like the watch to be accurate on your wrist, you can request that the watchmaker include this personal error when regulating.
Don

I may not always see your post, so if you have a question for me, or would like my view on a certain topic, simply start a New Topic on the appropriate sub-forum, then send a PM to alert me.

brian245
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by brian245 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:30 pm

Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply.
I shall give this a try and see how thing go.

Cheers,

Brian

brian245
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Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by brian245 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:48 pm

Right, well I never expected this!
Following the procedure above gave the following result................

CU.....+48 sec
CD.....+28
CR.....+44
CL.....+24
FU.....+44

Average +37.6/day

Wrist........22sec/day

Cheers,

Brian

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Don
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Location: Auckland

Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by Don » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:58 pm

brian245 wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:48 pm
Right, well I never expected this!
Following the procedure above gave the following result................

CU.....+48 sec
CD.....+28
CR.....+44
CL.....+24
FU.....+44

Average +37.6/day

Wrist........22sec/day
...

Great work, Brian!

The result that you’ve obtained is certainly outside of the 6R15’s -15/+25 sec per day, even if the on-wrist accuracy happens to be within that range. You can see how you wearing your SARB033 slows it down by 16 sec/day, and if another person wore this Seiko, this figure would differ again. If you own another mechanical watch, your personal error for that watch would also differ from this one. So, only the static timing results are reliable indicators.

While your 033 is not performing to specs, the figures do not, to me, suggest anything any serious problem with the range within a reasonable 24 seconds. The range is just not sitting across the right numbers, i.e. if it were sitting across +1 to +25, you would not be complaining, right? …This could have either left the factory this way, or more likely, had a rough passage to New Zealand. Either way, it could be rectified with a visit to an experienced watchmaker for a regulation, with a mandatory pressure test after that.

It is not compulsory, and you can certainly leave it as is or attend to it at a later date, all depending on how you wear the SARB033. I don’t currently own an 033, but some years ago, did have its predecessor, the Spirit SCVS003, in my rotation. The way I wore that piece was for one day in every week, and +22 sec/day on-wrist would have been acceptable—mine ran +15 sec/day and it was fine for me. However, if you wear your Seiko either everyday or many days in a row, you may like it to perform better than it is, in which case you can do it anytime you're ready.

Will the accuracy improve over time? I may a little, but not to the extent that it will move back to within the -15/+25.
Don

I may not always see your post, so if you have a question for me, or would like my view on a certain topic, simply start a New Topic on the appropriate sub-forum, then send a PM to alert me.

brian245
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Galloping SARB033

Post by brian245 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:20 pm

Thank you for the review on my test results,
I do not wear this all the time, more for when 'tidied up' rather than dressed up so I think I can live with this.
Too much time wearing quartz maybe.

Cheers,

Brian

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